Episode 124: Rich Van Slyke

Announcer: This is The Producers Podcast. Featuring the most respected international talent in the world of audio production and voiceover. TV, radio, film, and more. In-depth interviews and industry insights, putting you on the inside. Learn more at ryandreen.com. The Producers Podcast. With Ryan Dreen.

Ryan: Hey, how are you? Podcast is back. Thank you so much for giving me your time. I truly do appreciate it. I know I hopefully I say that every time, but it is real because I have to think about how I divide my time in the world. I'm trying to listen to more and more podcasts, and there's only about 50 million of them out there. So, you know, I get it. Thank you for checking this out. The guest is Rich Van Slyke. I'll tell you a little more about him in just a minute. Real quick, I won't take too long, but just to say, I'm happy to report I have a couple of interviews upcoming that I haven't technically locked in a time for, but I've had conversations. I can comfortably say these will happen at some point, hopefully the near future. first, Nick Simone. I've known this guy now for a few years, and I reached out to him, and, he totally dissed me. And, no, he, he discovered my message like, I don't know, a few weeks ago. I was like, oh my gosh, man, sorry, I don't know what happened. anyway, we're gonna get this one locked in. I'm happy to talk to Nick because he's a fabulous radio imaging producer, extremely skilled, but— I'm not. I actually did not double-check. As of a couple years ago, he was working exclusively in Ableton Live, and that you don't see that very often. That is not the DAW of choice for radio imaging people, but I'm telling you, when you hear his stuff, if you haven't already, you're gonna be impressed. And also, I'm keeping this show as international as possible. While I did have a few people from his country, which I will incorrectly say in a second, on my 100th episode, I've never had an exclusive, you know, one-on-one interview with anyone from Slovenia. Slovenia or Slovenia. He'll tell me how to properly say the name of his country because I'm just a stupid American, but I'll get learned when I talk to Nick. Also, a legend in the voiceover industry. He does some radio imaging work, but boy, you hear him everywhere. TV promo. I hear him on Kimmel often too. But trust me when I say his name, Beau Weaver. There ain't a person who doesn't like Bo. I highly respect him for his professional career, but he's also just a freaking nice dude. And I had actually worked on him maybe eight or nine years ago trying to get him on the show, and it didn't work out. Probably my fault, not Bo's fault. And so I decided I want to message Bo again because I heard him on the Emmys. Anyway, super nice guy. He's like, "Yeah, man, let's work it out. Let's do it." Getting a little busy for right now, but we'll get that one worked out as well. All right, there's enough about that. Real quickly about my guest today, Rich Van. Slyke, a, well, I'm gonna say a classic rock or a classic hits radio imaging guy, but he does many formats. But I think if you asked him, his passion is probably lying most in that. He used to be the in-house production director, creative director at 96 Rock in Atlanta many, many years ago, but he's been out on his own for 18 years. We'll get into his entire career here in a minute. If you'd like to look him up, richvanslyke.com. It's S-L-Y-K-E. Yeah. If that wasn't obvious. I'll pinpoint one moment in the show because I think it's really honest and really important. we, we get— I'm not sure exactly when, maybe 15 minutes in— we get into his experience when he was sort of blown out of his radio job, which happens to many, many, many people, not just in radio, in lots of industries. But what it, what it can do to you mentally. And he was really honest about how it affected him and how he dealt with it. And a lot of people are gonna get something really good out of that part of this interview. And then all the rest of the interview is awesome too. So, you know, make no mistake. So let's get us a— oh well, also Rich is on Facebook. I did want to mention that because I don't think I'll say it in the show. So just go to Facebook, type in Rich Van Slyke, and he's happy to reach out with anyone there. Okay, quick demo from Rich and then the interview with the one and the only Rich Van Slyke. They packed every American Arena. Good evening. Brandishing their logo on millions of t-shirts. I grew up with Led Zeppelin. Graced almost every 8-track and turntable, and to this day still play in DC. Led Zeppelin music never dies. Washington's classic rock, Big 100.3. 98.5 KFOX, the South Bay's classic rock. From South Florida and around the world, delivering the news to you first. NewsRadio 610 WRAL. IOD. When it comes to sports, we've got you covered better than a raincoat on a wet Portland day. Timbers, NFL, Thunder, and Ducks. $7.50 the game. $99.99 the point. Today's best music. Oh, you love it. Bonfires, football, and the best country. KIX 96. AC/DC, STP, and U2 on the same station? Whoa! Now there's a Long Island rock station with some teeth. Welcome to the new 94.3, The Shark. Everything that rocks. Matt Harvey says he expects to be back with the Mets by August. At least we think that's what he said. He yelled it from the back of a limousine speeding away from a nightclub after a fight broke out. 104.5 The Team.

Ryan: Ah, there he is. A voice I would say many, many, many people, especially in America, will at least be familiar with, if not friends with, or just know very well. Really happy to have my latest guest here. Mr. Rich Van Slyke. Hey Rich, thanks for joining me on the show. I appreciate you.

Rich Van Slyke: Thank you, Ryan. It's an honor to be here. Thank you very much. Cool.

Ryan: So we heard a lot of great stuff in there. I'll immediately direct people to your website because you have posted quite a bit of audio. There's a lot to consume on your site. It's a very difficult to remember website. It's richvanslyke.com.

Rich Van Slyke: So actually, no, it's It's exactly—

Ryan: but so for more, go to richvanslyke.com. You're also on Facebook. They can check you out there, right? facebook.com, and then just look for Rich Van Slyke. There's probably not a lot of Rich Van Slykes, I would guess.

Rich Van Slyke: That's it, baby. Keep it simple.

Ryan: All right, cool. Well, I have a laundry list of stuff to talk about. You know, I could get into the background here, but I'm curious is obviously I read a lot from your website. I'm not actually sure how updated all that information is. We'll get into it here. But you're a New York guy. Is that what we'd say? Were you born and raised?

Rich Van Slyke: Well, Buffalo, New York, which is really not New York.

Ryan: Yeah, upstate.

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah.

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah.

Ryan: Yeah. Not NYC, but I mean, you're a New York State guy. You're an upstate guy.

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah. Yeah. And Buffalo is really more of a Great Lakes city.

Ryan: Buffalo has a lot more in common with Pittsburgh and Cleveland and Detroit So what does that mean for especially people that aren't really familiar with the area? Why is that important? What kind of people are up there versus New York City people?

Rich Van Slyke: Well, it's just a different kind of city. Instead of a sophisticated city built around finance, it's an industrial city. It's a Rust Belt city. It's located Right on Lake Erie. And so it's a blue-collar city. It's an NFL football city.

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: It's a union town. It's a hardworking town. It's a town where, you know, you can stay out and you can drink as much as you want, but man, if you don't show up for work the next morning, you are no good. That's what Buffalo's all about.

Ryan: Nice. So generally speaking, born and raised there. Did you get your start in radio there as well?

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah, I started— I went to college at a State University of New York school. They call it SUNY, SUNY Cortland. SUNY Cortland is in the middle of the state, about an hour south of Syracuse. So I started at the college radio station there. Then I got a job at the local AM radio station, board-opping Yankees games. And they had an FM automated station. So during Yankee games, I would run into the FM studio and change the reel-to-reels on the automation machine. And then I'd run into the production room and do commercials, which is really where I discovered how much I love production.

Ryan: Yeah. I was going to say, I find that interesting. In fact, it's like the second thing I've written down here. Is it pretty fair to say that you had a love for the production room or production and actually didn't really want to be an on-air guy even from the beginning?

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I wanted to be a rock and roll disc jockey at my hometown station, 97 Rock in Buffalo, New York. But I quickly found out that I'm built for the production room. And I'm still basically doing the same thing today that I was in 1979.

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: Going in the production room, laying down voiceover, and then adding music and sound effects. That's what I was doing when I was in college and That's what I do today. Same thing.

Ryan: Yeah. That's— I was gonna say, I don't like to unnecessarily date people, but you said 1979. Is that the year you got your start? That was when you were in college and that was your first radio gig?

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I went to college full-time and I worked at the radio station full-time. And—

Ryan: Wow.

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah. And sometimes I say to myself, you know, do I really like doing this? Well, Yeah, obviously, because I'm still doing the same thing that I was back then.

Ryan: Yeah, it's crazy. So you were— I'm gonna bounce a little bit, but you were actually in-house at a radio station of some sort for then over 20 years. I mean, right up until about 2000 or so, is that right?

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah, when I got out of college, I came home to Buffalo, tried to get a job at the rock station, but, couldn't do it. Got a job at the country station, WYRK, Uh-huh.

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: And that was, that was a great job. I really loved the people there, and I learned a lot about country music. and that's when I segued from being a disc jockey into a full-time production director. They had no full-time production director, and, the station, became very successful, and there was a lot of stuff to do. So I asked, you know, and they were like, well, we don't really have a full-time off-the-air production director. And I said, well, I can be the first. And so, and from that point on, I was a full-time production director off the air, not doing an air shift. And then I worked there for 5 years. Then I went across the street to KISS 98.5, a top 40 station, for 2 years. Then I went to Rochester, New York, to work for a legendary album rock station, WCMF.

Ryan: Wow.

Rich Van Slyke: I worked there for 2 years, very happy there, thought I'd be there forever. And then I got a job offer from 96 Rock in Atlanta. And in 1992, moved from Rochester, New York to 96 Rock in Atlanta. Worked there for 9 years and then went out on my own.

Ryan: Yeah. Wow. I had written something down here because I thought you might be able to give some interesting perspective. So back in the very early '80s, after you had gone full-time, you created the job production director, to basically now, or at least into the digital era. So what is something that's vastly different now that you never saw coming?

Rich Van Slyke: Oh, definitely email, man. I mean, when I started, We would fax the copy to the voice guy, and he would record the VO on a reel-to-reel tape, put that reel-to-reel tape in the FedEx— in a FedEx envelope and ship it to us overnight. So now, man, you know, you email the copy to the voice guy, he records an MP3, it's instant.

Ryan: Instant.

Rich Van Slyke: So that, that, that and going from reel-to-reel recording to digital recording are the biggest, are the biggest changes I've seen. But at the same time, I'm still basically doing the same thing, which is standing in front of a microphone, reading copy aloud, and trying to make it come alive. So that part is the same. Yeah.

Ryan: Right. So the performance basically unchanged, you deliver the copy how they need it, the best way you can, all that. Technologically speaking though, anything else? Obviously, like I said, you know, digital audio works, your DAW, you know, the way you record, the way you deliver it, the way you communicate. just the industry in general though, is there anything else that stands out as like, wow, I can't believe we're here? or that we don't have that anymore?

Rich Van Slyke: Oh, well, just the obvious ones. The change in businesses. When I got into radio, radio was growing every year. Now a good year in radio is what, 1% growth, half a percent growth?

Ryan: It might be common to say flat is growth these days.

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah, flat is good, right? And a lot of people are bothered by that, but I'm not because Every industry, whether it's railroads or, you know, computer industry or radio, every industry has high growth periods and periods of no growth. And that's what we're in right now, at least for broadcast radio. And so we all have to adapt to it. When I started, our radio station had a full staff. You know, there were—

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: There were what, 27 people full-time? try to find a radio station in a, in a medium market that has 27 full-time people.

Ryan: Yeah. And this is in Buffalo, you're saying?

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah, in Buffalo.

Ryan: Yep. Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: Wow.

Ryan: When you got to Atlanta in— what was that, '91, you said? About how big would you say the staff was for just 96 Rock?

Rich Van Slyke: Full-time air staff, round the clock, every shift live on the weekends. Full-time off-air program director, full-time off-air music director, full-time off-air programming director assistant, full-time off-the-air production director, whose only job was to focus on the sound of one radio station. It was WKRP in Cincinnati, man.

Ryan: Wow.

Rich Van Slyke: I mean, I lived that. I'm so lucky to have worked at a place like that. It was a rock station, in a top 20 market in the South. I love Southern rock. And there were wild and crazy— everything you see on WKRP in Cincinnati, that's exactly what it was. It was great. And that was my career goal when I was in college. That's what I wanted to be. I wanted to be the production wizard of a major AOR station.

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: That was my— that was my career goal, and I achieved it. And I was like, okay, can we hit save and just lock everything in right here? 'Cause I'm good, man. This is— this is just what I want, and I got everything I want. Can we just— can we just keep it just like this? Yeah, sure, Rich. We'll keep everything just the way it is.

Ryan: Sure, buddy.

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah. Just for you. And then in 1996, well, you know the rest of the story.

Ryan: Yeah, yeah, I think it— well, definitely do. When was the first time you— wait, you know what, I'm sorry, I want to talk about Atlanta real quick. When you got to Atlanta, you were the production director. Does that mean you were focusing on commercial production only? Did you have anything to do with imaging?

Rich Van Slyke: Both. There weren't enough commercials to keep you busy, which was great. I did both commercials and imaging, and that was really the dawn of the creative production director. Everything that we know now from all the barter services, there was none of that back then. You had to have a creative guy on the staff to do all that stuff. And that was my challenge, and that's what I wanted to be. So, it was great. So, a typical day would have been working on some commercials in the morning, then in the middle of the day working on some really creative promos or really creative sweepers to run on a specialty weekend. And then towards the end of the day when the salespeople would return, working on more commercials.

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: But I had the time to do creative commercials. I did jingles and I did comedy and I did— it was really an opportunity to do a lot of creative commercials because It was a large city and most of the business was agency business. So any—

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah, there wasn't a ton of commercials to do. So when you had a local direct client, you really could get creative as long as the salespeople and the client were behind the idea of getting creative. Sometimes they weren't, sometimes they wanted a straight commercial, but if they were, Oh man, it was great. You could do anything as long as the client approves it.

Ryan: Best part of the job right there, when they open it up for you.

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah, yeah. And that was exciting when somebody, when somebody would write across the top of the copy, get creative, have fun. Oh, and by the way, it starts tomorrow morning.

Ryan: Well, so yeah, I mean, even, even back in the early '90s or whatever, you still had the We need this yesterday. But was there other people doing production? And like, I mean, you were focused on one station, and was there other people also focused on production for that station?

Rich Van Slyke: some were, some weren't. some, some DJs, enjoyed doing production and would pull, you know, a short 1 or 2 hour production shift most of the time when clients requested that they be on their commercial. But there were a few jocks that hated production, wanted nothing to do with it. And, you know, I would help record them. It just depended on the personality.

Ryan: And also, it was an era— it was very a 4-in-the-door era of disc jockeys, right? That was kind of the way it was then?

Rich Van Slyke: Yes, it was. Absolutely, it was. No question about it. But, very—

Ryan: it's changed, it's evolved since then.

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah, of course it has, absolutely. But that was an era of a lot of show prep. Those guys, they did a lot off the air. Our morning show, they would spend as much time in the production room as they did on the air. They did a lot of off-the-air prep. So yeah, it was a different era, man. It was, like I said, man, When everything's growing, when the business is growing, everything's good. Everybody gets what they want.

Ryan: So I don't know if I'm taking a step back here, but I'm interested. Obviously you started, you wanted to be the creative wizard production director and you attained that. But at what point did you start voicing at a high level? And maybe even what was your first, you know, I get it if you have rip and read commercials that the production director asked to do, but something that you considered to be a pretty major gig that showed you that voiceover would be a major part of your life?

Rich Van Slyke: Well, there was a couple. I mean, I always made extra money by having the commercials that I created go on other radio stations. And so right away, I saw an opportunity there to make extra money. And so I did a lot of that. And that was back in That was back in Buffalo where I realized, man, you know what? If you had equipment at home and you had enough clients, you could do this right out of your house. So I began collecting studio equipment, you know, while I was still in Buffalo and then Rochester. And then of course, when I got to Atlanta and then when I was working at the radio station in Atlanta, 96 Rock, one of the consultants, Greg Gillespie, from Burkhardt Douglas Consultancy, said that they needed a voice for a station he was working with in Canton, Ohio, WRQK in Canton, Ohio. Why don't you give it a shot, Rich? So I tried it. I was awful. And Greg said, Well, that's not exactly what they're looking for. Why don't you try it again? So I tried it a bunch of times, and eventually I got to where I could do it. And so that was my first radio station client, you know, because I'd been working with all the top voice guys, and I said, man, I would love to do what you're doing. How do I do that?

Ryan: And so when did you get this first station? What year was that?

Rich Van Slyke: Oh, that was— let's see, that would've been mid-'90s, like around '96, '97, '98, somewhere around there.

Ryan: And so you would've at that point had to cut it and put it on reel still?

Rich Van Slyke: You bet I did.

Ryan: Or were you delivering a different—

Rich Van Slyke: You bet I did. Absolutely. Yep.

Ryan: And so where does it go from there then? 'Cause I know we're, you know, at this point you're only a few years away from leaving 96 Rock and going on your own. Do you book a couple of stations and live with them for a couple years? Suddenly explode into 50 stations, 10 stations? How does it progress from there on the voiceover side?

Rich Van Slyke: Well, I tried to get more, but it really requires one of two things. It requires incredible God-given ability, or it requires real effort as far as marketing and working on your sound. And it was pretty obvious that I didn't have the God-given given ability, because I did what I thought was good imaging and nobody hired me, you know, except for that station in Canton. But I slowly worked on it and read articles and talked to people and slowly got an idea of what I needed to do. And then I began working for the very first imaging barter service, MJI Broadcasting's Rock Image Kit.

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: And yeah, I was the first guy that did that. I started it all working for a guy named Bo Phillips, who was the guy that basically invented imaging services through MJI. And then I did a bunch of stuff for that service, And because I was able to work on it myself, I got better at learning how to voice imaging. And then my big break came when Harvey Kojan, who was the program director of WNOR in Norfolk, Virginia, was looking for a voice guy. And he had the Rock Image Kit from MJI.

Ryan: Wow.

Rich Van Slyke: And he looked at a bunch of people and couldn't find what he wanted. And he said, well, why don't I just get this guy?

Ryan: Get the guy.

Rich Van Slyke: Why don't I get the guy? Get that guy on the Rock Image Kit.

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: So he called me up and he said, yeah, this is Harvey Kojan from FM 99 in Norfolk. And I was like, wow! And so that became the second radio station I ever voiced. That was my lucky break, and I owe it all to Harvey. He's a great guy.

Ryan: Cool. I guess at a certain point, you're going to leave the in-house radio station. Maybe tell me a little bit about that and how that came about. Were you prepared for it?

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah, I could see what was going on and I knew it was time to leave, but I was afraid. I had 2 kids and my wife was a stay-at-home mom. And I was afraid, but I knew that that's what I eventually wanted to do. You know, so I built a home studio and I got a good list of clients and I got a lot of contacts in preparation for going freelance. I like to say that I was, I was up in the airplane, I had my parachute packed, I was ready to jump. I stepped to the edge of the door, and I froze with fear. But lucky for me, Clear Channel came up behind me with a 2x4 and helped, boom! Make that decision for me. I got fired. I got fired from Clear Channel, and it was the best thing that ever happened to me.

Ryan: Yeah, you know, I've definitely heard that before. I kind of assumed we were leading to something like that. So you get sort of shoved out the door, but luckily you had the ability to see it coming and you started to prepare. What was it like when you first went on your own? Like you already explained, you tried to prepare yourself, but was it a financially trying time or did you just fall into 50 gigs that made you a wealthy man? Tell me about the situation.

Rich Van Slyke: No, I had to hustle. I had to hustle real bad. I made a big mistake. My mistake was, well, if I get fired, then I'll collect unemployment, and then that'll give me a chance to launch my freelance business, which is what I always wanted to do.

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

Rich Van Slyke: But I miscalculated the emotional impact of getting fired. I'd never been fired in my life. And what I should have done, I was ready. I mean, I was ready, man. I should have quit, but I allowed it to go to the point where I got fired. And so after I got fired, it hit me really hard emotionally.

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: And the brain is very powerful. The devastation of getting fired affected me, man. I did not handle it well. and actually developed depression and had to go to the doctor to get on antidepressants.

Ryan: Yeah, wow.

Rich Van Slyke: Yep.

Ryan: Wow.

Rich Van Slyke: And I will tell you this, man, for me, antidepressants worked very well. They helped me get out of bed 'cause my symptoms, everybody's different, but depression affected me making me sleepy and tired. So I would sleep for 8 hours and then I'd wake up. Okay, man, it's time to go down in the studio, time to start making phone calls, time to try to find some radio stations that will hire you as voice guy. Oh man, oh, what if I can't? What if I can't hire them? Oh, that's it, man.

Ryan: Yeah, wow.

Rich Van Slyke: I'm gonna have to move to another city. I'm gonna have to— oh, I'm gonna have to go work at some horrible radio station for some boss. Oh man, I am really in trouble now, man. I really screwed up. Oh my God. And so what that kind of thinking does is, for me, it made me feel like I was drunk, like I was sleeping, like I'd been awake for 2 days straight. And so when I went to the doctor, he was like, oh, we're gonna get you fixed up, man. I said, are you sure? Oh yeah, you just got a little— they called it reactive depression. He said, has there been some kind of crisis in your life within the past couple of months? Well, yeah, as a matter of fact, I got fired for the first time ever from a dream job that I loved. Yeah, no problem at all. No problem at all.

Ryan: Really?

Rich Van Slyke: Oh yeah, we'll get you this medicine right here. You start taking these, you're gonna be fine. Really? Okay. Well, he was right. the antidepressants, take care of those symptoms. So once I was on that medicine for a couple of weeks, all of a sudden I'd wake up and I'm like, okay, man, I'm ready to go. All right, let's do it. Let's make a demo. Let's make a demo. Let's send it to that radio station.

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: Hey, let's call— let's call that consultant back because he said he's got a station that is looking for a new voice. All right, let's do it. Let's put together— All of a sudden I had the energy and the enthusiasm and the excitement and the confidence to get back on the horse. You see what I'm saying?

Ryan: Yeah, absolutely.

Rich Van Slyke: So I go back, I start getting some business. As it turned out, I never needed any of the severance money and I never needed any— I never filed for unemployment. I never did any of that because within a year I was right back to my salary.

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah. And so I went back to the doctor and he said, how's it going? I said, it's going great. Everything's great, man. I got, I got back into it. Everything's good. I'm signing up clients. I'm like, it's working, it's great. And I said, but these antidepressants, man, they, they got these side effects, you know? I said, how long am I gonna have to be on this stuff? And he goes, well, you're, you know, you, you've got that kind of brain that is susceptible to depression. So Probably the rest of your life. Oh, no. Oh, no. No, no. I'm not doing that, man. I am not dealing with these side effects for the rest of my life. I got to figure this out. So then I started reading books about how our thought patterns can produce symptoms in our bodies. And I learned that I'm very lucky because I don't have the kind of depression that is lifelong, that you can't deal with without medication.

Ryan: It's not chronic, in other words.

Rich Van Slyke: Exactly. That's a good word. It's not chronic. So I read a couple of books and realized that I was making myself sick just by worrying. And I'll never forget, man, way back in Cortland when I was in college, you know, the program director would come in and talk to me and he'd say, how's it going? Oh, you know, I gotta get this done and we gotta make this and I didn't get that right. And, you know, I screwed up so-and-so. And he goes, Rich, you think too much. But it's that kind of brain, man. And I know, I know, Rich, radio people, we all got the same brain. We think too much. That's what— that's why we have lots of ideas. That's why we have all these exciting things we want to do. That's why we have creative brains. That's, you know, and, but your thinking can make you sick. You gotta—

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: You gotta learn, or at least I had to learn how to, keep those thoughts, from making me sick. How do you do that? Well, I read a great book. It's called Happiness Is a Choice. And once I read this book and learned how human beings can, you know, make themselves ill by the way they're thinking, I was like, okay, this is what I got to do. And the stuff you got to do for it is really not that complicated, but it is hard. It's kind of like going to the gym, you know. You want your body to feel good, man. You want to feel strong. You want to feel powerful, you want to feel in good shape? Well, you got to go to the gym. Do you like going to the gym? I don't, not really, but I sure like the way I feel when I'm going to the gym regularly.

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: Well, it turns out your brain is the same. If you will do these mental exercises and if you will keep focused on these certain thought patterns— is it fun? No, it's not. It's much more fun to just, you know, think whatever and whatever pops into your head and just go with the flow, you know?

Ryan: Yeah, eat whatever, do whatever, think whatever. Obviously that's easier. And yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: That's right. And that, and that's fine when you're 20 years old and you're working for, you know, minimum wage at a radio station and getting free concert tickets. And that's great. Yeah, it's great.

Ryan: Life, life changes. I mean, when you have only yourself that is dependent on you, It's a lot different than when suddenly there's other people that are dependent on you.

Rich Van Slyke: Right. But the payoff is that if you can manage to go to the gym, and if you can manage to go to the mental gym, the payoff is you're happy, you're positive, you're not sick. You don't need the medicine. At least if you're somebody with a brain like mine. That's not for everybody, you know?

Ryan: Yeah, yeah. This certainly isn't a medical show, but I really appreciate you talking about it so candidly like that. It's important, I think, especially every— I mean, in this industry, we're probably not going to be hiring more people. There probably are going to be more types of layoffs as time moves on, and more people are going to have these experiences, and we got to figure out how to deal with them.

Rich Van Slyke: Well, that's exactly right, man. And who would ever think, what's the best thing that ever happened to you in your career? Getting fired. What? Why? Because it forced me to do what I was born to do, and I never would've done it otherwise.

Ryan: There's a lot of people that I've talked to now that have basically said the same thing. And so anybody that's out there that's listening, that's like, oh God, I just got fired. I got to figure out what to do. It's real. do look back on the time they got fired from a big job or forced into a really awkward situation, and they look back on it as a really positive experience now. It happens all the time.

Rich Van Slyke: That's right. That's right. We don't want to go to gym, man. We don't want to go to the gym, but we all want to be in shape. What's the saying? Everybody wants to go to heaven. Nobody wants to go to church.

Ryan: Man. Hey, this is great. I know, well, I mean, I'm glad we spent all that time talking about that. If you have a little bit extra time here, I'd like to totally switch gears if that's okay.

Rich Van Slyke: Dude, I have as much time as you need. I mean, we can talk, we can talk for 5 hours if you want to.

Ryan: Prepare for it. hunker down, buddy.

Rich Van Slyke: Uh-oh.

Ryan: actually, you know, before I get into some of these, I like to talk tech a little bit here, but we started to talk about this before we actually hit record on this thing. There's a time, at least it kind of happened for me, and it's not like I'm this hugely successful voice artist. I do pretty well, but a lot of people bring this up. When you go from sort of being what you think others want to just being the best you, did you have that moment? If you did, how did it come about?

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Ryan: Yeah. Talk about that.

Rich Van Slyke: I had to hire a voiceover coach before I finally figured it out. That— I couldn't figure it out by myself. I got to a point where, you know, I had the idea of what I think I should be.

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: And, I would produce that up and blast it over the speakers, and I'd be like, see, now I sound just like my favorite VO guy, that guy. And that's the way it should sound. But what I was doing is I was doing another version of me. And so when I started working with the voiceover coaches, they said, they said, why are you doing that, man? Why are you, why are you doing this thing with your voice? Why are you trying to—

Ryan: Right, yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: And I'm like, well, that's what they all do. No, it's not. The best version— You're right.

Ryan: You hear that.

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah. Yeah. And so he said, you know, next time you're on the phone with somebody, roll tape. And after a few minutes, you'll forget the tape is on. And then you'll be talking to them. And that's your real voice. And here's what he said, which really struck me. He said, you may not think that you're Real voice sounds as good as it should for you to land gigs and business. But the truth is, we prefer the sound of your real voice over the sound of you trying to sound like somebody else. Oh yeah. Yeah, there's a certain thing that you do when you're trying to sound like that guy, or you're trying to sound awesome, or you're trying to sound like a guy who's on a whole bunch of radio stations. And when you do that thing, we're not really sure why we don't like it. We just— there's a BS alarm that goes off and says, why are you doing that, man? Why are you talking like that? And so—

Ryan: You know, sometimes you'll see a movie or even hear a song. You know what I mean? It's an intangible thing that you sit back and go, I don't like that. But you can't really say why. That's very interesting the way you say that.

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah, yeah. We prefer the sound of you doing you than the sound of you trying to do him.

Ryan: Yeah. So, I'd be curious to know at what point in your career this sort of moment or this, I don't know, realization happened for you.

Rich Van Slyke: It was— it all happened right around the same time. I started working with— large market radio stations, top 10, and I started working with Production Vault Classic Rock, and I started working with TV stations, and I started working with a voice coach. And all of that came about, let's see, it was right before and then right during the recession and right after the recession. And I gotta say that the recession also presented opportunities because A lot of stations, both radio and TV, had to make a change because they couldn't afford to work with the guy they had been working with because all of a sudden budgets are cut, cut, cut. So they're looking for somebody new. That presented a lot of opportunities.

Ryan: So you got pretty deep though, being sort of not you, and then, you know, and successful actually. And then you Had this realization or this coach that sort of showed you the light and then you kind of switched gears? Would that be a safe thing to say?

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah. I learned what to focus on. I stopped focusing on the sound of my voice and instead learned to focus on the emotion in my voice. That's what it's all about. And I had a voice guy say to me, or rather a voice coach say to me, okay, you're not— you're not doing that thing where you're trying to sound like somebody else. You're sounding like yourself, which is good. But what I'm hearing from you, I'm not picking up any emotion. Like, when you read that line, I didn't really hear any emotion. Or I heard the wrong emotion.

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

Rich Van Slyke: You know, like, I heard anger, and this promo is about how great this rock station is, you know? We play all the best music. But I was doing it like this, we play all the best music. That's right, motherfucker! You know? And he's like, why are you angry?

Ryan: Why are you pissed off at me?

Rich Van Slyke: That's right. Why are you angry? and then I was like, well, what should I be? And he said, you should be confident. Because you know you're the best. And somebody that's truly confident doesn't shout, doesn't threaten, and is not angry. Somebody that's truly confident simply knows this is the best classic rock station. See what I'm saying?

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: All of a sudden, the light bulb went on. Oh, I get it. So then, When I'm reading, how do I know which emotion to choose? And he said, he said, it doesn't really matter which emotion you choose as long as you choose one. And if you can't figure out which emotion to choose, if it's not obvious from the copy, then the emotion you choose is confidence. Always.

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: That's your default.

Ryan: Yeah. I mean, oftentimes the copy should kind of tell us what our emotion is, but I see what you mean. Sometimes it's generic words.

Rich Van Slyke: Well, if the copy is, you know, this is the South Bay's classic rock. Well, there's— what's the emotion there, man?

Ryan: Exactly.

Rich Van Slyke: Exactly.

Ryan: Yeah. Sometimes it's just a fact. It's not— man, it's interesting. Let me You brought this up already, coaching. I guess first I'll ask, are you still getting some sort of regular coaching today?

Rich Van Slyke: No. No, it got to the point where I was paying for sessions and I was hearing the same thing over and over again. Now, that's not to say that I couldn't work with a different coach today and learn something new. It's exciting. It's fun. It's great. You know, and I'll read stuff, I'll pick up videos, I'll watch. But, you know, I mean, it's kind of like learning to play golf, man. Once you get to a certain point, you're like, wow, I'm really happy the way I'm playing now. Holy cow, I can't believe I got this score. I still can't believe I'm doing this. You know, you can always get better.

Ryan: Yeah, I don't know. But even, you know, while Tiger Woods is a good example, he still has a coach, you know?

Rich Van Slyke: Yes, absolutely. You're absolutely right.

Ryan: Yeah, I really hear what you're saying, though.

Rich Van Slyke: I really have no excuse for not using a coach other than, well, I don't really feel like there's something— the whole thing that led me to the coach was there's something I don't understand. I think I'm doing it the right way. When I listen to what other guys are doing and then I take that same copy, transcribe it, record it for myself, and produce it, I think I sound the same as that guy. What am I missing, man? Why am I not, landing these gigs? What am I doing wrong? Well, I, I figured out what I'm doing wrong. And I couldn't have done it without the voiceover coach.

Ryan: Yeah, that's great advice there. But over to sort of the marketing side, agents, generally acquiring new clients and new business. I actually have no idea if or by whom you are represented agent-wise.

Rich Van Slyke: Well, I don't have an agent for radio. And for television, I do have an agent, and her name is Kate Bacon. But she's not one of the big agencies that you've heard of. She is a former TV creative director.

Ryan: Okay.

Rich Van Slyke: And she has helped me get my foot in the door for TV. But I only do a handful of TV stations. My focus, my love is radio. That's what I focus on. That's what I want to do. But I'll tell you what, if I was more focused on TV, if TV was my number one goal, then absolutely I'd be with Atlas. No question about it.

Ryan: No, that's cool though. And on the radio side, you're Effectively doing it all on your own?

Rich Van Slyke: Yes. Yes.

Ryan: Yeah. It's interesting. It's cool. It's, I've, I've had a number of guests on that have just chosen to keep themselves, you know, self-represented and all that. So as far as acquiring new clients, maybe marketing or just simply hustling, as you already said, are you doing that often? Is there a lot of work you have to continuously put into that side of your, your business?

Rich Van Slyke: not as much as when I first started. But yes, absolutely, man. Absolutely. If you want to— well, if you're a guy like me, you have to keep networking. Absolutely.

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: Some people don't have to. It's not the same for everybody. Everybody's different. But yeah. Now, the thing about that though is that, you know, I mean, I've been doing this for 18 years. So there's a lot of people that I worked with before, and then, you know, 5, 6 years down the road, they find themselves in need of a voice and they reach out to me. Okay?

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: So that doesn't really count as marketing because I did know this guy, you know, years ago when I worked for him before. So that's the benefit of having, you know, somebody who's starting off, would not have that opportunity. But absolutely, man. The truth is most of the successful voice people that I know spend as much time on marketing as they do in the booth voicing.

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: And a lot of them spend more time marketing than they do voicing.

Ryan: Certainly. If you could pinpoint one thing that you do, you know, best— I don't know what the right term is— best bang for the buck, or just simply the most effective way to get yourself out there, is there something you could say is above all else?

Rich Van Slyke: Absolutely. No question in my mind. I've tried them all. I've done the ads, I've done the trades, I've done the The emails, direct marketing, there's absolutely no question in my mind, the best way to do it is by networking. Absolutely. And when I say networking, it's just—

Ryan: Yeah, be specific. Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: Hey Ryan, what's up? It's Rich. Oh, how you doing, man? I'm doing great. How's everything with you? Oh, you know, this guy sold my gun. Oh man, that sucks, man. Oh, what about this? Oh, that's going great. Oh, terrific. Good to hear, man. Hey, if there's anything I can do to help you out. Oh, we really don't have anything right now. Okay, that's cool. Well, just know that I'm happy to help in any way I can. And I'd love to work with you. And listen, if an opportunity comes up, let me know. And keep doing that, man. Keep doing that.

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: And then—

Ryan: So generally be a human and interact with other humans.

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah, yeah. It sounds pretty easy, doesn't it? It's not complicated, but it is hard.

Ryan: Well, not everyone can do it though.

Rich Van Slyke: Yep, that's right. That's right.

Ryan: I've certainly learned that, and it's hard. I mean, it is hard. It sounds easy, and like you said, it's not complicated, but it's hard to be just a personable human and not just be the guy who's always selling. Hey, hire me. What? That's not— You know, that's uncomfortable, you know.

Rich Van Slyke: Yep, absolutely, absolutely. But just like anything else, it's a skill that can be learned. You know, if I said to you, Ryan, I'll give you $100,000 if you learn how to play golf enough so that you get this score. I don't know, what's a good score in golf?

Ryan: Well, I would assume scratch, but there's no— I mean, I don't golf, So you can give me 30 strokes, I don't think I could get there. So I'm not getting the $100 grand, I'm the wrong guy. But I get what you're saying.

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah, yeah. I get what you're saying. Yeah, if I give you $100,000, will you take lessons and will you learn the skill of playing golf so that you can get through 18 holes? Yes, I will. It would be difficult, but well, marketing, networking, selling, Networking is the same thing, man. It's a skill. There are books out there. There are guys with videos on Facebook— I mean, YouTube.

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

Rich Van Slyke: It's a skill. You can learn to do it. It's not all that hard. And the payoff is tremendous. When you network with somebody and strike up a relationship and then that ends up in, you signing a new client, oh man, it's a great feeling. And you're like, yeah, I did it. All that hard work paid off. I love it. All right, man, now I can't wait to do it again.

Ryan: Yeah, that's great. let me, let me get into a couple other things here as I— we both are going to have to move, move on with our lives in all seriousness here. But, as far as your day goes, And I know you said a lot of your focus is on radio, but you're still doing some affiliate work and other stuff. What's the percentages on about how your day looks? How much radio copy you're reading, how much affiliate promo, et cetera? What's your day look like?

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah, yeah. It's 90/10, 90% radio, 10% TV.

Ryan: Okay. Do you spend any time focusing on commercial or narration, long-form e-learning, anything else?

Rich Van Slyke: No, no. I do have a couple of retail clients that I do commercials for, which I really love. Absolutely. That's— I like variety.

Ryan: Sure.

Rich Van Slyke: So yeah, it would really be a challenge for me if I was like the voice of a certain format and I was doing the same read every day, you know? It would— I get bored easily.

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: And so I really like, you know, doing a page of liners for a classic rock station, then doing an automotive commercial, then doing a lighthearted thing for your TV station in Dallas, and then doing a cranking promo for a hard rock station. And then doing a country station, you know what I mean? I love the variety. And I love the different approaches and the wide range. It's really fun to change your style, but still keep the focus on the right emotion.

Ryan: Yeah. Do you find that as somebody who does a lot of radio imaging copy. You're on a lot of stations in a variety of formats. Is it difficult, if you have to, to switch gears in the middle of the day and fire off— actually, I have no idea how many commercial things you're doing as far as auditions or whatever, but to suddenly change your read and get into a very subtle retail environment?

Rich Van Slyke: No, no, no, no. It's not at all. Now, after 18 years, I'm doing— most of the stuff I'm doing is right in my wheelhouse. You know what I mean?

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: Like, the stuff that I was pushing to do has fallen away. And what's left is the stuff that you're built for. And so, you know, it's kind of surprising. The read that I might do for a CHR station or a classic hit station, a really upbeat, happy read. This is your station for classic hits. That's also the same read that I do for car dealers. A Ford F-150, just $179 a month. That's right. It's the same read, you know? Now—

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: That doesn't mean all car dealers want that, but the ones I'm working with now, that's what they're looking for is that happy, energetic read. Which also happens to be what CHR or classic hit stations are looking for.

Ryan: What are you not doing that you wish you were in the voiceover world?

Rich Van Slyke: Oh man, what do I wish I was doing? Well, there's nothing, man. I mean, there's nothing. If you want to do something, you have to pursue it. And you have to pay the price, right?

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: So, if there was something that I really wanted to do, I would have to devote all my effort to it. And I think I could do it because the people that are doing that now, I feel like they're not really better than me, but they're putting in the effort. There is so much required that's not on the microphone. And that is the hard work. And you gotta be willing to do that, you know? So, you know, if I could wave a magic wand, oh yeah, I'd love to try a movie trailer. That would be cool. I'd love to—

Ryan: That comes up a lot.

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah, I'd love to see myself, or rather hear myself on a network promo. That would be cool. But how bad do you want it, Rich? How bad do you want it?

Ryan: Well, clearly you've been around long enough to know the realities of— because you hear this in just the voiceover world in general, the, I was told I have a good voice. I'm going to now be a voiceover artist and make $1 million this year.

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah. And every year, every year there's somebody that comes along and is able to do that. And I just, I'm just so jealous, man. Well, you know, I worked with the boys.

Ryan: How many thousands are unable to do that because it is not typically possible? And there's a lot of time, a lot of time and a lot of work that goes into succeeding at even one of 50 elements of this field.

Rich Van Slyke: That's right. That's right. And I'm that guy. I'm that guy. I'm the guy, you know, oh, I mean, just, I just, I just heard this just, just earlier this year. Well, you know, people said I had a good voice, and so, you know, I, I worked with a voiceover coach, and, and he taught me some stuff, and I made a demo, and I signed up with an agency, and next thing you know, I had a national TV commercial. And then, and then I signed up these radio stations, one of which was in Los Angeles, and then the next thing I know, I'm on, I'm on 65 radio stations, and— You know, I just— I'm just kind of getting in front of a microphone and doing what I think sounds good. And I'm like, oh man, that is— if you can do that, right on, brother. More power to you. You know?

Ryan: Yeah, yeah. No, fall bass-ackwards into success. That's the way to do it. Absolutely.

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah, absolutely, man. But that's not me. That didn't work for me. I tried to make that happen because that's the great dream, you know. It's the American Idol version of success, you know.

Ryan: Yeah, right. Yeah, who doesn't want the winning lottery ticket? You're not gonna throw it away.

Rich Van Slyke: That's right. And there are people that do it. I would never say that it can't be done because every year there's— well, not every year, but every couple of years there's somebody that One of those stories? Absolutely, man. Absolutely. And if that's you, right on, brother. Go for it. But if that's not—

Ryan: I don't think it's gonna—

Rich Van Slyke: yeah. But if that's not you though, then you're gonna have to do a lot of the stuff that I did, you know, which— but it still can be done. It still can be done.

Ryan: Yeah. Without question. Real quick, I know you produced an imaging effects product at some point a long time ago. You still dabble in any of that? any sound design or anything like that still?

Rich Van Slyke: No, I did it and it's still selling. I just sold a couple the other day. It's called Distortion. It's a CD and—

Ryan: At richvanslyke.com, everybody can go check it out.

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah, or it's also on the Noise website. Totally. Yeah, I've got a link that I can email to you for that. He just put it on sale, as a matter of fact. But no, I haven't produced any of those. I am a guitar player and a singer in a band. And so that—

Ryan: That was my next question.

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah, yeah. So that was my— that was my— that's my real creative outlet.

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: But before I did that, I really did a lot of my own jingles and produced sounds and work parts and beds and stuff like that. But I don't do that anymore because I'm really getting my musical enjoyment out of playing the guitar and singing.

Ryan: Now, you said you're in a band, like currently you're in a band?

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah, yeah. Well, it's not a band-band. It's a band of Friends and neighbors. We play once a month. We play out at this little sports bar. And mostly it's a very small little place, you know, 50 people in there is a crowd. I think it holds maybe 100 at the most. But it's so much fun, dude. It's so much fun. Yeah. And we practice once a month. the week before. So we have one practice and one gig a month. There's, it's 8 people in the band.

Ryan: Really?

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah, yeah. Drums, Latin percussion, lead guitar, rhythm guitar, Hammond organ, 2 lady background singers, and my daughter plays saxophone with me.

Ryan: Nice. Wow.

Rich Van Slyke: Yeah.

Ryan: you pretty— a death metal band? No, it's classic rock.

Rich Van Slyke: It's, it's Rolling Stones and Leonard Skynyrd and Allman Brothers and John Mellencamp and Tom Petty. That's really surprising, Rich.

Ryan: That's really surprising. I can't believe that's what you play.

Rich Van Slyke: It's my passion, man.

Ryan: Yeah, that's great. Hey, there's nothing better. I would— anyway, okay, go back and tell, I don't know, 21-year-old Rich one thing, what would it be?

Rich Van Slyke: Oh, for sure, man. There's no question. It's all the stuff we were talking about earlier about how to use your own natural voice and try not to sound like somebody else and focus on the emotion in the reads.

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: That's absolutely— I wish I would've figured that out a long time ago, but, you know, Everybody's got challenges, and one of mine is overthinking stuff and not being able to see— what do they call it? Not being able to see the forest for the trees.

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: I'm wonderfully happy for people that are able to step back and see who they really are. Self-awareness is a wonderful gift. And I'm also very happy for people that have the natural ability to go into the production studio and make something that they like, that they think sounds awesome, and then have that be liked by a lot of other people and be commercially successful. That's, that's a wonderful thing, man. That's a wonderful thing.

Ryan: Yeah.

Rich Van Slyke: It's a wonderful gift to have.

Ryan: Absolutely. You may be answering my final, final question. Decided to give you a bonus final question, by the way. That was that one. Anyway, one piece of advice to anybody that's young and up and coming right now, especially those that want to steal your job, Rich. What's your one piece of advice for those people?

Rich Van Slyke: Write it down. Write down what you want. Write down your goals.

Ryan: Nice.

Rich Van Slyke: Write it down and create a step-by-step plan of how to get there. It's amazing what happens when you write something down on a piece of paper, the power it creates from defining what you want and the steps to take to get there, to achieve your goals. Now, that doesn't mean that you can't change the plan. But the difference between having a plan and not having a plan is night and day. The difference between the plan you had 2 years ago and the plan you had now, oh, that's okay. That's a little different, but that's not that big of a deal. But that's the one thing that I would pass along.

Ryan: That's great.

Rich Van Slyke: Yep. Write it down, man.

Ryan: Hey, I believe when I put this on Twitter, I'll be putting the wise words of Rich Van Slyke, write it down. That's great. richvanslyke.com. I think people will figure out the spelling. It's Rich, R-I-C-H-V-A-N-S-L-Y-K-E.com. You're on the Facebook. People can go to the Facebook and hit you up there. Man, this was great. Thank you so much for being on the show. I really appreciate it.

Rich Van Slyke: Absolute pleasure, man. It's a real honor to be on this podcast. I'm really happy you called. Thank you.

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