Episode 38 - Part 2 - John Willyard

ANNC: The producers.

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RYAN: To switch gears just a little bit, we talked about your first— and when I say first gig, I mean, you know, you were on the air a long time, but I think, you know, most people now know you as a voiceover talent. So your first gig, the, you know, KZLA, woo, big deal. Then you mentioned a few— I don't know, how long after that was it that you actually went completely on your own? And how did you know it was the right time to go on your own 100%?

JOHN: That's a great question. It was—

RYAN: I'm pretty good at this.

JOHN: Early '98, and it was too— it was because I just knew it, and I knew that I wouldn't be happy until I started— until I stopped, that is, working for the man, you know, until I could commute down to my studio in the basement and call my own shots. And I'll tell you what, if I could encourage people to really jump out, of course, I don't know, you know, I don't know if these economic times equate to when I did it because it was a little, the climate was a little bit better economically.

RYAN: Yeah.

JOHN: There wasn't as much, you know, people weren't scared as they certainly have reason to be now. But in the period of about a year, I doubled my income. And in another year, I doubled it again.

RYAN: And this is— we're talking '97, '98, '99?

JOHN: Yeah. So when I finally was able to— so what I'm saying is, when you call your own shots, when you can write your own ticket, and when you can choose to work with the people and choose your time and not get stuck in a in a commute where, you know, to me, I look back and I break out in a cold chill and I think, wow, you know, I really am grateful that I, that I can spend all of that time that I would in a car doing what I get to do. And so I encourage people to, to, to do that. And I've talked to creative people on ISDN sessions through the years, and it breaks my heart because I'll hear them say, Yeah, the union is going to give me 3.5% raise this year. I guess I'm going to be able to make it. Boy, I sure would like to do what you do. They'll say that in the same breath. And I just go, get a business plan together and do it. Just don't keep dreaming it, do it. You've got to do it.

RYAN: So you think—

JOHN: Because I don't think that— and what would be the harm in in failing. You could fail one time, but you could reinvent yourself, and you could— you can still do it if you have the desire, if you have the focus, if you have the passion. I think you can do it.

RYAN: So you've found there's, there's still a few, if not a lot, of people that are just maybe simply afraid to take the leap, and that might be the biggest roadblock?

JOHN: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And then, and then of course there are the people who you hear from Through Facebook and you run into and they'll ask you, you know, I've been thinking about doing voice work. And I think, oh boy, you know.

RYAN: Yeah.

JOHN: It's really competitive. I hope you know. I hope you have worked out your chops. And some of these people are not in the business. That's what I'm saying. That's the difference. Those who are, who want to do it, and those who are not, who want to do it.

RYAN: Yeah, if you, if you voice professionally for long enough and you, you know, you have a legitimate career, then you start to see how many people don't understand what it is. You know, they kind of think it's a lottery ticket or something, you know, just do it, you'll win.

JOHN: One of the outstanding voiceover guys based in the Hollywood area, Beau Weaver, has a great— I can't think of the name, I think it's spokenword.com, but under his frequently asked questions He has a very, very bracing— and what I mean by that is, it's a slap in the face of reality, but it's a great question that he answers as to the seriousness and the congestion of the competition in the Los Angeles area alone.

RYAN: Mm-hmm.

JOHN: And how many and how few people are actually dominating most of the work. It's tremendously competitive out there. It's dog-eat-dog.

RYAN: Yeah, well, lucky enough for us today, we get to talk to you, a guy who has done very well. At what point did you branch out into— because, you know, CMT— excuse me, CNN was what I was gonna say, but as far— I was gonna say non-country jobs that you have. You broke out. Was it easy for you, or did you find that you were so entrenched in country that actually getting out of it was difficult? Or is that a stupid question and no, you're easily able to find your way into other realms of the voiceover world?

JOHN: I think it's a cool potpourri to be able to do all of those things and not to limit yourself. I think some people might limit themselves, and I'm gonna say something that I want to word it delicately, but a lot of the agencies and a lot of the television can't work with radio people, people who are working inside of a radio station because they have that radio-ish sound.

RYAN: Yeah.

JOHN: And that's kind of hard to break away from. But no, I really wanted to do the television work. And as a matter of fact, I ran across some artwork that my mother had saved, and she's been doling out some stuff. She's in her early 80s now, and she's been doling some really cool keepsakes and treasures to her and giving them to me. One of them was a piece of artwork that I did when I was in 3rd grade. And we lived in the Los Angeles area, and I think that early television back then that I was intrigued with it and knew a little bit about what went into live television broadcast. And of course, that's the center of the nation there in Los Angeles.

RYAN: Mm-hmm.

JOHN: Well, this piece of artwork that I did in class in 3rd grade was a stage. I think it was a soundstage or a TV studio, and it had television cameras and boom mics. It had those big, long mic booms and lighting and all that kind of thing. And on the cameras, it said CBS. And so years later, I would think, wow, the first time that I was able to do a show, a major network show, was on CBS. And that was the CMA Awards in 1996. CMA.

RYAN: Oh, I'll go there. So I know you're very proud of that. You're very proud of that. And everybody's proud of you, especially in the country world. You're hoping to hit 20 years, right? Isn't that the goal in your head?

JOHN: Well, the first one was 10 and then 15. Actually, the next goal was I'd like to do 13 because I met Ralph Emery one evening before the show started, and I introduced myself to him. And when he realised what I did for the show, he stopped and he smiled at me and he said, I did that for 12 years. But there is— the neat thing about the CMA Awards is the incredible history and the legendary people who have worked on it. To know that Bobby Gentry was a co-host, that the second year Roy Rogers and Dale Evans were the hosts. And that was the first year that it was televised. The second year was the first year it was televised. And just the cavalcade of talent and stories and people like Walter Miller, who has been the executive producer through the years. And this is a guy who's done the Grammys and the Tonys and Latin Grammys and all kinds of shows and worked with Jimmy Durante and Sam Kennison and—

RYAN: Yeah.

JOHN: Michael Jackson, you know?

RYAN: Mm-hmm.

JOHN: I mean, it's the coolest thing that there's this subculture of people who work on live award shows or ceremonies, and they all work with each other, and they're the same people. You'll actually see the lighting director's the same, the sound designer, the art director, the associate director. It's really the coolest thing. And to be in that family, and it really is a family. Some of those people have worked every year that the CMAs has been in existence. So yeah, in that regard, I'd like to hit 20, 25, 30. I don't see a problem with that. And my hero, I think in that regard, is Don Pardo because at age 93, I think he is now, he's a machine.

RYAN: He's not human.

JOHN: He's a working machine.

RYAN: He's not human.

JOHN: He actually said one time, there's a little clip of him on YouTube talking to a group, and he was asked to speak about his life. And right in the middle of it, he's lamenting the fact that he says, my daughter, the doctor, is retired and her old man is still working. Yeah.

RYAN: My daughter retired and I'm— oh, wow.

JOHN: But you know, now this year will be the 45th Annual CMA Awards. If I take a page from the longevity of Don Pardo, I would get to the 77th annual CMA Awards.

RYAN: Can you believe that?

JOHN: So that's kind of my goal in the back of my mind. Stay healthy, you know, keep working.

RYAN: Yeah. I just know that the CMA Awards is really important to you, and it's really cool for kind of the, you know, those of us that are sort of in the— and if you don't, if you're outside the country genre, you know, you work in radio and you work at big formats and big stations, it's still, it's a little weird. Country to me has always been a little weird. about how tight-knit it is and how, you know, you don't go against the family. But if you're in the family, typically they're gonna keep you in there for a long time, if not life.

JOHN: Yeah, you got to keep your nose clean, I'll tell you. I think people in country have a long memory, but, you know, they're forgiving to a point.

RYAN: But if you go against, man, they will excommunicate you quickly.

JOHN: Yes, sir. I've seen it. Can't tell the stories.

RYAN: I was gonna say, if you could shed some light, just a little— I don't know how big of a story this is really nationally, but today there's a story out about how the CMAs are free from their ABC contract. They had been on ABC for 5 years, so now all the big networks are fighting for it because it's a great show, it does great numbers. Would that have any impact on you doing the show? Or are you excited to see this much excitement from the major networks fighting for it?

JOHN: I think that's an incredible scene. I know that the contract was up and who knows, it could go— if it went Fox, I mean, they might get Chris Corley to voice it.

RYAN: Yeah.

JOHN: The incredible Chris Corley. And by the way, that was a great interview too that you did, Ryan.

RYAN: He's great.

JOHN: But, you know, no, there wasn't a style change or really that much personnel change when it went from CBS to ABC in 2006.

RYAN: Okay.

JOHN: The last show on CBS was at Madison Square Garden in New York City. And, you know, it was in the next couple of years after that, I asked somebody, when are we gonna go back to the Grand Ole Opry? And they said, Never. Because they want to sell tickets. So they want to have it in the arena. And we've been doing it there on ABC in the arena downtown where the Predators play ever since. And I know a lot of people who work on the show don't want to see it go back to New York.

RYAN: Yeah, I was just going to say, you're probably at least glad maybe it's not at the Grand Ole Opry, but it's in Nashville. And that's probably gotta make most people happier than being in New York City.

JOHN: And they sell out every seat. It's amazing. I looked at some of the outrageous prices on eBay the day of the show a couple years ago. There was a huge buzz. I forget what the huge buzz was that year, but it seems like it's been just growing in intensity every year since. But there were some— there were 4 tickets that were in a really prime section just off the main floor where you could look right down on the stage. And it was 4 for— let me think of the price. Something in the neighborhood of 4 for $4,000 or something like that.

RYAN: Wow.

JOHN: It was just outrageous.

RYAN: Yeah, I had the Super Bowl prices in my head since it was in Dallas here last year, and I was familiar with what people were paying. Doing live broadcast voice acting, announcing, live announce, Your first CMA Award, how much had you done before the first CMA Awards that you did?

JOHN: I don't think I had done anything live, certainly not on network. I mean, I had done some other television voiceover work, but for Turner South and CNN and TBS and TNT and groups like that, but not a terrestrial Major network.

RYAN: And the, the, you know, that, you know, that muscle you're exercising is— it's very different. And I mean, did you, you know, were you scared? Did you have trepidation? Were you just so excited you dove right in? Was there a bit of a learning curve? You know, what was it like to go?

JOHN: All the above. Yeah, all the above. There was a learning curve, but I jumped right in and Actually, a lot of people don't know that all of those things, including the opening and the laundry list of appearing tonight, you know, all that kind of stuff.

RYAN: Yeah.

JOHN: And then coming up, Alan Jackson will announce the Entertainer of the Year. Will it be...? And what you're doing, what I'm doing when I'm voicing that is I'm actually watching in pre-production, I'm watching the edited reel, the clip that the viewer will see on their TV set. And I have to hit the names to the picture. And I would rather do that and put that in the can, have that pre-produced, and that's what we do.

RYAN: But you do it on the fly?

JOHN: There are some live aspects though to the show where there's a walk-up of somebody who's won. This is George Strait's 26th win in this category. That kind of thing.

RYAN: Yeah.

JOHN: So yeah, those are the only— but I love the fact that the critically edited and critically voiced to picture parts are done in advance. The first year that I did it, I knew that I had hit a mark because when Walter— and Walter, the executive producer, directed that session. Now that was—

RYAN: Hmm.

JOHN: That was— I was a little unnerved about that. He never did again. He never— he just did the first one. Because I was kind of his discovery, or I presented myself to him, and he's the one who made the decision to have me in the first place. So I think he felt that that was owed to me, and I appreciated that ever since. But the audio guy who was recording me and running the picture to voice, he held me back when everybody had left. He says, I want you to hear something.

RYAN: Oh, yeah.

JOHN: And he said, you took half the time that the previous guy took on this job. He said, they're gonna love you for that. So I think that's one thing that I did kind of file away, and that was, you know, work fast.

RYAN: Efficient.

JOHN: Be efficient. Try to hit it in one take. And we have a little game now. Sharon Taylor, the associate director, who's worked on all of those since, including Walter, she was sitting right next to Walter, and then she's done all the other sessions with me. And we'll look at each other and we'll go, yeah, this was one we're going to do in one. Or if we do one that we like, we'll look at each other and she'll go, are you happy with that? Yeah, I was happy with that. And if there's any doubt at all, I'll ask to run it again.

RYAN: Yeah.

JOHN: But I'm just— I am proud of the CMA Awards because I think it's country's biggest night. And it's the night to really say to the world, this is the greatest format that there is, and look at these people and listen to these songs, and this is the music of your life.

RYAN: Mm-hmm.

JOHN: You know, and not only is it broadcast live across the nation, but the very next day— a lot of people don't know this— we do a cut-down version of the 3-hour show, and we do a— and it's a 90-minute broadcast. And it's broadcast around the world over the next 2 weeks in Australia, on BBC 2 in Great Britain, in Western Europe, lots more places around the world now too.

RYAN: That's a lot of fun. And I know, yeah, you know, country is actually pretty popular in some other places in the world. So that makes a lot of sense.

JOHN: Czechoslovakia.

RYAN: Yeah.

JOHN: Or the Czech Republic as it is now.

RYAN: Yeah, well, let me switch gears a bit, 'cause I know how much work you have to do. I'm gonna send you some stuff, by the way, for KSCS here in about 30 minutes, so.

JOHN: Beauty.

RYAN: And I hope you don't think I mean this in a negative way, but is there anything in your career at this point that you wish you were doing that you aren't doing? I'm probably talking—

JOHN: Oh, that's great. That's a great— that's a good— That's a good topic. And yes, I would say the top 2 things that come to my mind are the holy grail, I really think, for voice people, all voice people, and that is animation. Okay, I didn't expect that answer. And movie trailers.

RYAN: Okay, movie trailers I assumed, but now let's talk about animation. You mean you don't want to be the Fox promo voice for The Simpsons, you want to voice act in an animated series. Is that what you mean?

JOHN: That would be a hoot.

RYAN: Yeah.

JOHN: That would be unbelievable. And I have done auditions for that. And there's really a pipeline of people who are known and who kind of get it, and they work in that vein. And I think that's a subculture right there. But boy, wouldn't it be great to be part of that fraternity?

RYAN: I've listened to Seth MacFarlane in some interviews. And, uh, he explained it to me probably best as to why some people are so successful, because a lot of people that do it— and this isn't you, by the way, I'm just saying in general— they seem to just sort of emulate what they think cartoon characters should sound like. But the people that are really good are able to completely create their own characters that you've never heard before.

JOHN: Mm-hmm.

RYAN: And then that's why they're the successful ones. And so there you go, that's what you gotta do, Jon. You gotta go create your own completely unique character.

JOHN: I gotta get less busy with what I'm doing. Yeah. There's a lot on my plate.

RYAN: Exactly.

JOHN: And I'm not begrudging the, you know, being as busy as I am in these other areas. I mean, I really still want to continue to reinvent and improve and, you know, come up with new ways of surprising not only myself, but the clients, the friends I work with across the country, you know, in doing And doing the promo and the liner and the ID stuff in a different way, you know, what kind of a different spin or even just the way you interpret or the way you use your voice. I'm certainly not doing what I did 15 years ago. I mean, everything seemed to be slam bam, you know, hitting it really hard. I think one of my favorite reads right now is just the kind of really conversational, and if it's well-written and kind of laughing through the copy, if it sounds real. And I think it does. But you've got to start with the writing. I mean, that's what inspires me. That's what intrigues me and motivates me.

RYAN: Yeah, I agree with you 100%. I've asked Mark at CBS in Sacramento, sent in a few questions. I've asked a couple But, uh, thank you, Mark. Yeah, uh, he, he did want me to hit on— he says, John, why are you always in a good mood in your sessions? And I think this is sort of talking about what you were just saying, but, you know, what, what do you— we already talked about the way you, uh, have kind of, uh, took care of your voice and that you do want to deliver for all your clients. But, you know, everybody has bad days, so, you know, why, why do— why does it seem like you're always in a good mood?

JOHN: Well, I'm an actor. Not every day is rosy. I think when the mind—

RYAN: You have daughters, right?

JOHN: Oh, I think—

RYAN: huh?

JOHN: Say again?

RYAN: You have daughters, right?

JOHN: Yeah. I have 2 girls.

RYAN: Every day can't be rosy.

JOHN: Yeah, exactly. Life happens. But I think when you belong to the time, Of the client. I think you owe it to them not to swear at them and not to show your butt. And I guess that's another thing too. I don't believe I've ever really sworn in the sense of using those words that the FCC could get you for, because I think that I don't want that stuff archived.

RYAN: No, I would archive it.

JOHN: Case in point, Ernie Anderson.

RYAN: Yes. That's a classic. The my gosh, his name just left my brain. Ultra famous, humongous Casey Kasem. Casey Kasem.

JOHN: Okay. Yeah, Casey Kasem and the dog in Hawaii.

RYAN: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A GD dead dog dedication after an upbeat record. Yeah, that kind of stuff. Yeah, people. I would hold on to that forever. I would never do it to hurt you, but come on, it's hilarious.

JOHN: That's why I don't do it. Right.

RYAN: So, but that's kind of that's your personality too, though. I mean, that you know you're not a guy who's dropping the F bomb in. conversation, pretty much. That's not you.

JOHN: No, that's not who I am. But I think that maybe the overall feeling and awareness is that, man, I get to do this. I get to make a really good living doing this. And by and large, the work is about country radio, and I'm blessed. And so why treat it any differently than that, than the blessing that it is? And I know I'm blessed and I could be more grateful, I think, but I don't know, maybe. Well, that's an interesting question. I appreciate that. I appreciate that someone thinks that I am upbeat all the time. Am I? Ask them this, maybe a follow-up question.

RYAN: Yeah.

JOHN: Does he feel like I'm too upbeat?

RYAN: Does that bother him? I guarantee he listened, right? Yeah, he'll let you know if he needs some more attitude, if he needs you to dish it out more.

JOHN: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would say this, as far as direction, maybe I don't get enough direction, but—

RYAN: You keep making more questions come to my head here. I was going to try and round this out, but tell me about that a little bit. As a radio imaging voice talent, this is something I've had asked. How much direction do you need? Do you want, and is there too much direction from time to time, or can there be?

JOHN: Mm, I think you and I both know there was a little too much direction in the beginning.

RYAN: Oh wow, yeah, well, with our situation.

JOHN: But no, I think that once they— and I'll answer it this way. There are some people who write for me. And I've heard that, and I'm very— that's very— I'm very honored to know that.

RYAN: Yeah.

JOHN: But they know what I'm capable of doing and what I like to do. And I guess what they like, what the net result is. So they write for me, for my style. There are those who write a little bit more generic copy, but they are kind enough to give some direction, especially when there's a little production piece that I that's not shared with me, that it would take too long to write it all out.

RYAN: Yeah.

JOHN: So I have to know what I'm bouncing off of or what I'm next to. And I appreciate that a lot. But by and large, the copy really kind of dictates itself. If it's well-written, it doesn't really need that much direction. And fortunately, I don't have to do I can't remember too many retakes. I could count on one hand, I guess. I guess I'm privileged and happy that I haven't had people say, no, that wasn't enough energy, or, that was too much, or something like that. And I think it's because I've done it long enough. Hopefully by now I know what they want.

RYAN: So no one's gonna come away from this thinking you're not just completely blessed and happy where you are. But we've already talked about a couple things that you kind of wish you were doing— animation, movie trailers. But, you know, where do you see yourself going? Are you kind of in your groove? What you're doing now is what you're going to be doing for the foreseeable future? Or do you have some things on the horizon that you see yourself doing or that you really think you're going to be diving into?

JOHN: I'd like to do more narration.

RYAN: Okay.

JOHN: I'm talking about groups such as Discovery Channel and the History Channel and HBO. You know, I love Liev Schreiber. I love his narration style. I would like to be able to engage that kind of work.

RYAN: Sometimes you hear him and you literally can't hear anyone else doing what he does.

JOHN: Yeah. Oh yeah. He's that dominating. He's that good. I have done some narration that makes me very happy. There was one, and I believe it was about 2003, was the history of the Saturn rocket story, and that was a pretty significant thing. People can look that up and find out where you can— that stuff is still available for sale too. Not that I'm making any extra money.

RYAN: Right.

JOHN: It's just neat stuff. It's just really incredible. If you love space exploration and the Apollo missions and all that kind of stuff. And then I was able to do, through an audition process, to portray the voice of President Lincoln, and that's in a museum in Washington, D.C. Oh, wow.

RYAN: That's interesting.

JOHN: That was a cool thing. So yeah, those are the kinds of things that are possible to do, and I'd like to do more. You know, more true voice acting.

RYAN: Yeah.

JOHN: More narration. Maybe I'll just do that and forget the animation and movie trailers.

RYAN: This— I will ask you my final question in a minute, but people always ask what sort of training and/or coaching— you know, you've been doing this a long time, especially when it comes to radio imaging and TV promo. You know, some might say, well, who could teach him anything new? You know, he's got it locked up. But what kind of things do you do to keep yourself sort of Motivated, trained, coached, you know, keeping that talent sharpened?

JOHN: Well, you know what? Not enough.

RYAN: Is that— is the answer really none?

JOHN: Not enough.

RYAN: Is your answer none?

JOHN: I would have to say that— and just today, um, somebody asked me about voice coaching, and I turned them on to David Lyerly. I think he's one of the best. I did something with him Last year, but it wasn't really me engaging him necessarily. And I know you're a big proponent of that. And I think you've gone, Ryan, you've gone to those clinics. And that is something that was on my plate, or that was my resolutions at the end of last year. I've got to do that this year. And I haven't done it yet. And I think that the busyness of the business gets in the way, and that's terrible. But you need to step away from it. You really do. And sharpen, like you said, and hone your craft. And I haven't done that. That's one of my major flaws and misgivings.

RYAN: Mm-hmm. Well, I'm glad I could help you point that out then.

JOHN: So delicately.

RYAN: Thanks for doing the interview.

JOHN: See ya. But I think that if we were to put a serious spin on it though, if people do want to get better, if they're in the business and they want to get better, doesn't matter where you are. If you think that you're stuck or if you're doing great and you're turning business down because you are so busy, I think you still need that coaching and mentoring and stuff that just will elevate you to the next level.

RYAN: Yeah. The biggest talents—

JOHN: And I really, I intend to do it this year. I really do.

RYAN: Well, good.

JOHN: I hope you do.

RYAN: I'll call you next year and make sure that you did. It won't take that long. But yeah, seriously, the biggest— I'll call you in a month. No, the biggest talents in the world still, you know, go to a Maurice Tobias session. You know, I had her on.

JOHN: I was thinking of Maurice as well. Very, very funny.

RYAN: Anyway, final question. I know we both have actual work to do, but thank you so much, man. for doing this, first of all.

JOHN: Thank you. You were very generous.

RYAN: Oh no. We talked about this a little bit. You may have already answered this, but I always ask if you could give one piece of advice to those starting out, and, you know, really for anything related to your world, whether it be, you know, promo voice, radio imaging voice, just voiceover in general, or just doing what you love, what would that one piece of advice be?

JOHN: Wow. Just identify what you want to do specifically. Dream, dream big, don't give up. You know, sometimes the dream can, can die, but there's always a rebirth to the dream. And if it's that important, just do not give up.

RYAN: Excellent. Well, if you're not already a legend, you're well on your way. People will know you forever. John Willard, thank you so much for your time. I really, really appreciate it.

JOHN: I appreciate it.

RYAN: Thank you. And, uh, yeah, John Willard, just, uh, I think if you listened to any part of that interview, you know, he's a genuine dude. He's genuinely nice, genuinely talented. And, um, you know, you're just in a good mood when you're around him, when you talk to him. And, uh, you know, if you got a country station out there and you don't want to use me as your— no, I'm just kidding. Uh, you know, look at John if he's not already in your market, because he probably is. Uh, he, he just gets the job done. Anyway, uh, thanks to John. Um, I won't be too long here at the ass end of the episode. I will simply remind you of upcoming stuff. We've got Joe Kelly next. He's the main dude at AB Deli, abdeli.com, also a sponsor of this podcast and have been for well over a year. I thank them very much for doing that. Kind of helps me out because this is pretty time-consuming. Got server space and all that crap to do. Anyway, I also will say with excitement that Mike Crank and Trevor Shan will be— I'll be conducting a tag team. I guess It's gonna be a ménage à trois, won't it? It won't be a tag team because I would have to have a partner at that point. Okay, well, that's enough of that kind of talk. I will interview the both of them together coming up in most likely early October. If you're unaware of who they are, Mike Crank is the main dude at Jack in LA. Trevor Shand is now the main dude, and I believe has been for about 3 years, at KROQ in LA, one of the stations I grew up with. I think if you lived in LA It's difficult to say you weren't a fan of KROQ. Even if you hate, you know, edgy alternative music, it's just a station you gotta like. It's just always been good. And anyone who knows Jon Frost, that's kind of where he came from. Anyway, I won't go into too much of that right now because we still got about a month and a half before that one happens. So if you have anything to add to the show, as always, please submit it. I have a listener-submitted column that has been used sometimes, not oft used, but Still, if you've got anything you want to post on my website, I got a place right there for you to do it. If you got any stories you want me to hit up, if you have any, I don't know, questions, guest requests, all that stuff I ask for, you can send that in to me. Just use ryan@ryanontheradio.com. There's a contact link there on the site. It goes to my Gmail. Everything goes to my Gmail, ryandreen@gmail. So if you're on Gmail, you can hit me up like that. All right. I feel like there was one other thing that I absolutely needed to— oh!

JOHN: Duh.

RYAN: There is a new book by Mike Craig and Trevor Shand. Yeah, that's why I actually brought them up here too. They actually wrote a book about creative from the radio imaging creative dude's point of view. I have not gotten to read it yet. Can't give you a review. I will have that on my blog soon. It'll most likely hit the front page of my site pretty soon. I believe they said they're sending me a copy. I am waiting with bated breath. And that's all I can say about that. I will get— like I said, more information will hit the Facebook page, it will hit my site, and it will obviously hit this podcast soon enough. But be on the lookout for that. I'm very excited to see what they have to offer. Okay, that's all I have right now. Anything else, I'll post on my site. Bye. This is The Producers. Have a question, comment, or concern? Email Ryan at ryanontheradio.com.

JOHN: The Producers. Thanks for listening.