Episode 38 - Part 1 - John Willyard

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Ryan: Ah, here we go, another episode of The Producers Podcast. As always, thank you so much for checking it out. Believe it or not, this is the third try, my third try at recording my intro. The first one, I went off on a tangent, about Babe's Chicken in Dallas, which I won't do right now. I'm just saying, if you ever come to the DFW area, you must go to Babe's Chicken. Done, tangent done. The second try, I looked up and I was— Well, I bring up a specific producer that I'm gonna interview in 2 episodes from now. I got a little gushy. I'm gonna also not go off on a tangent about that. I will simply say the guys at KROQ and Jack in LA are Mike Crank and Trevor Shand, in reverse order. And Mike Crank is actually one of the guys that I can say specifically is the reason I'm doing what I'm doing. He was producing the station whose imaging I loved the most at the time that I started radio. I would dissect his imaging. I— and yeah, so I've been wanting to get him. We had miscommunication way back when, but now it's all coming together. I literally just locked them in. It'll be a dual tag team interview. That'll be coming up early October, most likely. So be on the lookout for that. Yeah, that's like I said, I, you know, I really respect what Crank was doing then, and obviously He was on KROQ in LA for like 7 years. Now he's doing the Jack format anyway. And Trevor, obviously talented as well. Okay, moving on. Next episode will be the one and only Joe Kelly. He's the owner, the main man at AV Deli. They've been a sponsor of this show for a long time. I actually reached out to Joe either before he even expressed interest in sponsoring, you know, the podcast, which I thank them for every day, AVDeli.com. But he said, no, go screw Ryan. And I said, wow. Wow. All right, I'll move on. No, he said he didn't have any interest to be in the spotlight, he just liked to support what I was doing. He listens to the episodes, he respects, you know, all the guys that are tirelessly working out there to make radio stations sound more gooder. And finally I talked him into it because we're not really gonna do an interview about him per se. I will get into some of his background, and he's got some amazing stories. I've talked to him multiple times in the past. But we're gonna try and make that interview more of a tool to people inside radio stations now that may not be inside radio stations tomorrow. Yeah. Just like me, they very well could say, thanks for coming, now don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. And we'd like to make that episode as much of an educational piece to tell you the best way to prepare yourself for life after the inside of a radio station. Going out on your own as a producer, voice talent, you can create services, whatever, we'll get into all that. That'll be the next episode of Joe Kelly. I think I've yapped enough, right? Right. Now it's time to bring in the one and only John Williard. We start things off with a fantastic 20-year combined composite since he started voicing country radio. He put it together. I didn't do this. John put it together himself, and I think it's a lot of fun. And I believe he, he squeezed 20 years down into like a minute. So here we go. John Willard.

John: From high atop Mount Wilson overlooking the Southland, this is LA's most powerful FM country music station. Having a whole lot of fun. The new KAT Country 103. Let's boogie! The Armadillo! ADIL. Jingle balls, jingle balls, jingle all the way. Hey, this ain't no new wave hip-hop and gangster rapping techno popping machine-made music station. We're FM 106. This revival meeting is brought to you by KSON. Let's go. The new Cat Country 96 sent a team of investigators deep into the cavernous confines of the massive Bethlehem Steel Plant in Southside Bethlehem. Big The hog big. The hog. New Country 98.5 KYGO. This is the Academy of Country Music Station of the Year. KSES, Fort Worth, Dallas, Texas. Cozy with your country favorites. 92.5 XTU. New Country 98.7 KUKF. From the fun-loving canine that always loves to go for a ride to the fair. With my mouth and ears flopping and the Breeze, the new 100.7 The Wolf. US 103.5. KC Limits. It's time to fire it up.

Ryan: And that is a historic, just a great piece of audio, a montage of Mr. John Willard. That goes back to what year, John?

John: It's pretty scary, isn't it? It starts in '91.

Ryan: '91.

John: Summer of '91. So let's see here, let me pull out my abacus.

Ryan: Yeah.

John: That marks 20 years. You gotta use your toes. How did that happen?

Ryan: Great. John, thank you so much for being on the show. Everybody appreciates it so much.

John: My pleasure.

Ryan: I was— we were talking here before we started that I have no doubt we'll have plenty to talk about. We will have, you know, there'll be no dead spaces in this interview. I think also you're gonna have some great stories to tell us, so I thought we should just dive right in. You, like, as you mentioned there, there's a 20-year demo of you, but you've actually been in the radio business as a whole since, you know, I don't like to date people unnecessarily, but we are talking the '70s, right?

John: Yes, we are. You saw my control room picture from San Francisco days.

Ryan: I did. And was that—

John: That brings back memories, having to get your third-class license with an Element 9 endorsement and running CONELRAD tests. People are scratching their heads going, what in the world is that? But yeah, that was cool to start in San Francisco.

Ryan: So San Francisco, 4th largest market now. In the '70s, I guess I'm not as familiar as I should, was it still a pretty major market? Did you feel like you were getting just a gift to be starting in a market like that, or was it maybe not such a big deal back then?

John: I did at 20. I mean, I was 20 years old and I was doing full newscasts by the time I was 21, and they were 10-minute newscasts that were carried on a limited network. in California and a couple of western states, actually. And that was a little overwhelming. I have to tell you that one newscast, I was working the all-night shift, and there was a 2:55 AM Monday morning newscast, and it was network programming that was covering everything. And I was to have the next network program tape queued up to go at 3:00 AM after the newscast. Well, I edited the news and I had it all ready to go for the 2:55 and had all my marks on it. And I looked up and it was 2:40 AM and I put my head down on the control room desk.

Ryan: Uh-oh.

John: And I woke up with a start. I woke up startled at 3:02 to dead air.

Ryan: Oh no.

John: And nobody called.

Ryan: Well, I guess at least it was 2:55 AM.

John: Exactly. When a lot of— this is when a lot of stations were going off the air and running tones and, you know, the chief engineer would do complete maintenance and a lot of stations went off the air at midnight and they had their big flourish of big fanfare of, you know, the thought of the day and the national anthem. And we don't do that anymore. We should kind of get back to that.

Ryan: I think so. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I know at KSCS we used to play the anthem at noon. And, uh, it was a pretty big deal, and we sort of tested it out, and it turned out not that many people really noticed it, and it ended up being a bit of a tune-out factor, which is kind of sad. Don't get me wrong, I don't like that. But yeah, so perhaps midnight, it still could be a good thing. But anyway, um, all right, so you're getting rolling into this business at the, uh, what did you say, about 22 or so?

John: Early 20s. Yeah. And then, uh, and it wasn't It wasn't country for— it wouldn't be country for another 20 years, actually. And I kind of made my way through religious programming at first and then top 40 and, you know, AC and whatever that is. And, and then my last radio station on my way out the door in 1991. Yeah. By my own choice, I was headed to Bill Young Productions in Houston. He had heard some— somebody had heard some concert spots that I had done, and he flew me in and had me, you know, do a look-see at the facility in Sugar Land, which is right next to Houston.

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

John: And I thought, yeah, this is a nice fit. So I went there and In the transition, I did my first station actually before I got to Bill Young, and I started adding stations slowly at that time. And the first station was KZLA in Los Angeles.

Ryan: Really?

John: And I came in through the back door through a friend of mine who I had worked with in Atlanta, Ken Cooper, sometimes known as Cajun Ken Cooper. And he was the morning guy at KZLA.

Ryan: So—

John: And he had me do some stuff just for the morning show.

Ryan: Okay.

John: So the first day it goes on the air, Bob Guerra, bless his heart, the PD, Bob Guerra. Bob Guerra comes in the door to the control room and goes, who's that? And he goes, that's my friend John Willard. And instead of saying, which he could have as a program director, get that guy off the air, you didn't run this through me, he said, Why don't we put him on the whole station? And that was the first.

Ryan: And so, uh, you had the, uh, piddly market of Los Angeles, one of the, uh, lesser-known stations of KZLA, to launch your radio imaging voiceover career, basically.

John: And little did I know that it was Rusty Walker who was the consultant. And in a real, almost a head-spinning kind of a way, over the next few months, I would get calls while at Bill Young Productions asking for a demo. And I was sending cassettes out, you know, when they were requested, only when they were requested. 'Cause I was busy with, you know, with Bill Young work, doing Nine Inch Nails spots and Michael Bolton and Alan Jackson and stuff like that. It was, you know, it was really cool to wear all those different hats and do all those great concert spots.

Ryan: Yeah.

John: that they're known for and still known for.

Ryan: Yeah.

John: Yeah. And so every week there were many requests for demos, and then I was signing people up. And, you know, when I left Bill Young, I probably had enough to launch out on my own, but it wouldn't be for another few years that I actually went completely independent. But that's part, you know, that's part of the process. And I embrace it all.

Ryan: So I am interested in that though. But, uh, so it sounds like you left the air for Bill Young, so obviously now using your voice and all that. But, but you say you didn't completely branch out on your own till— what were you doing between Bill Young and between— and the time you were completely on your own?

John: I was working for a production house in Midtown Atlanta and doing a little bit of producing, and then Kind of mostly at the end of the workday was doing the crush of stations. By this time, it was probably 2 dozen or about 30 stations.

Ryan: Okay.

John: And they were all country. They're all country stations.

Ryan: Yeah.

John: As they are now. If it's radio, it's country.

Ryan: I wanted to definitely make a point of that. Let's bring it up now. You've made it pretty clear that, love it or not, you are a country imaging voice when it comes to radio, and that's what you want to do, and you feel like by doing country, it makes you better at country by— and is that— I mean, that's how you feel, right?

John: I think not only as a specialist in that format, but also as somebody who embraces that music, enjoys the music, loves the artists, loves the art form. And if you're just really ensconced in it, if you know what you're talking about and you know some of the details, and not only how to pronounce the names of the artists. But if you know something about them and some behind-the-scenes stuff and what's going on in that industry, it really lifts everything. It really does help. And I just don't get the other formats. And I mean, I appreciate some of what's going on, but I just don't get some of it. Maybe I'm getting a little too old.

Ryan: Yeah, I was gonna say a good example of that might be, tragically, I'm doing this interview a few days after what happened in Indiana at the state fair.

John: Mm-hmm.

Ryan: Big stations in Indianapolis, of course, have been doing great coverage and support of that. But, you know, you send generic voice guys some stuff, it's kind of like you're just, you know, reading copy, and you're good at it. But since you sort of love these artists, you know, they're probably gonna get something different out of you in a tribute copy than you might get out of the other big voice, country voice, you know. 'Cause you know the names of the duo of Sugar Land. You know where they're— well, you certainly know where they're from, being where you are. But anyway, I don't need to talk about that.

John: Yes, I did go to their website. I wanted to see what they individually said, what they said together and as individuals. And it was very heartfelt, obviously. And they were heartbroken. You could just tell.

Ryan: You most certainly know them, right?

John: I mean, you've at least met them. Yes, I've worked with them on— on the CMA shows and stuff like that. But yeah, even though I don't have any station in Indianapolis, I never have. I don't know why Indianapolis—

Ryan: Is that right?

John: Has been that lone market. But in markets that have had tremendous trauma and tragedy, like Joplin, Missouri, I do have a station there, KIX 102.5. And then The Bear, and I love that in Tuscaloosa, 95.3 The Bear, which I think is perfect after Bear Bryant.

Ryan: Do you have New Orleans?

John: You do, right? Yeah, that's new. Yeah. Last couple of months. It's doing great.

Ryan: You weren't there?

John: But I didn't have it. No, I didn't have any— I wasn't able to have a touchstone with New Orleans after Katrina.

Ryan: No.

John: But you know what? You brought up an interesting point there about things that— excuse me. Things that can tug at your heartstrings, things that rally the community together to pitch in and whatever the need may be. There was a couple of years ago in Seattle, there was the great Wolf Station, 100.7 The Wolf. At the time it was being programmed by Scott Mihalik.

Ryan: And the great Fat Matt Gansel was doing the imaging.

John: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Uh, there was some really well-written copy, and you could tell that they— that the station was terribly involved in it.

Ryan: Um...

John: Because it wasn't just a scant couple of lines. It was some really meaty copy. And the more I got into it and envisioned these homeless people who they were trying to help, I started crying. And I left it. And I mean, I was genuinely involved and empathetic as much as I could be. And I was sincerely touched by it. And I think that the— I don't wanna say it was a performance, but—

Ryan: Well, it is a performance.

John: It came through. No, it is a performance. What I was trying to share with the listener was coming through.

Ryan: Yeah, without a doubt, it's a performer. I mean, what you do, you know, you have the generic copy you do. You know, you're an announcer from time to time, but I can testify directly that you are a performer a lot. And I think that's another advantage that you have.

John: Well, I'll tell you, thank you. I appreciate that. I do. And I appreciate people like Ed Hill, who I've been working with since '92.

Ryan: Salt Lake, the Bull.

John: Salt Lake City now. And I've been doing that station since they signed on. But Ed Hill had told me one time, you are a radio actor. And it stuck with me. Actually, it was a little bit more than that. He said some very nice things that I just, I wouldn't be able to repeat.

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

John: But it has stuck with me. And I think I've embraced that and I've taken it seriously. I've also taken it hilariously. I really like— I really just— I don't have any limitations on me whatsoever. I'll try anything. And I have.

Ryan: Something that I wanted to bring up in relation to that, because I know how much work you have on most days, but some days—

John: Not as much as Ann DeWig.

Ryan: We were talking about her before.

John: Ann is—

Ryan: yeah, Ann's great.

John: And he's a sweetheart. That was one of your best interviews ever.

Ryan: I enjoyed it a lot. But, you know, every time you send a session, every time, you don't just pick up the copy, give it the Williard, you know, deal, and move on. You're always injecting other stuff. And a lot of times you'll also be like, oh hey, by the way, back to school's in 2 weeks. Why don't I do some back to school stuff for them? They didn't write it, but they might— I mean, it seems like after a while you have to you would have to stop that for time, but you never do. Do you ever think about that? Is that something that you have found to be just so important for your clients that you're gonna kill yourself and make them happy before you, you know, save yourself?

John: That's an interesting question because yes, I have asked myself that, and it doesn't matter if it's Bismarck, Mandan, North Dakota, or it's Chicago. I wanna treat everybody the same. There's integrity with every client. And actually at the end of the week, if I've done something that I share with everybody across the board, like a back to school, and some of the lines are really funny, funny little lines.

Ryan: Yeah.

John: Like, we never learned the absolute value of X, but we sure did learn a lot about absolute. Welcome back to class. That kind of thing. And I'll, and I'll go back and I'll think back over the weekend. I'll go, you know what? Uh, Joplin, Missouri got a better treatment than, than, uh, Seattle, or, you know what I mean? And I go, well, I should probably borrow and copy that, but I never do that either. I don't, I never get into the voicing and copy and paste to a session. Everything is, uh, is unique and fresh with each one.

Ryan: Like you may be giving me, uh, around Memorial Day some of my stuff and then you'll also toss in another 6 or 7 lines, but I know you, you had it in your head, or, you know, you didn't go, oh, you know what, KSES in Dallas could use this stuff, let me just copy, paste, bam. Yeah, you don't do that. So, which is why I also sort of worry about you a little bit, is you already have so much to say every day, you have so much to perform, but then you're constantly adding in your own stuff. So I just worry about, you know, your voice health and that kind of thing.

John: Yeah. Well, where were you back in the early 2000s? I'll tell you what happened. I did suffer overuse, and I think it was— part of it was vocal acrobatics. And I don't hold myself back now. I'm a little fatigued at the end of the day right now. I don't know where this little frog is coming from, but usually as the day goes on, if I have warmed up Properly.

Ryan: Okay.

John: And if I'm drinking— and I drink water, probably a gallon a day. And that's something that I'd like to say to any voice people who are listening, anybody in radio. I've seen pictures, as a matter of fact, of radio stations, and I'll see a Coke can sitting there in the control room. Get that out of there and replace it with water, you know, because Coke is dehydrating and all that kind of thing. Anyway, I could preach about that.

Ryan: Well, and another thing I'll say, it feels good on your throat, but it's not good for you.

John: And it feels good on your lips. Yes, it does. And then at the same time, from about 1995, I had become the voice of World Championship Wrestling. So I was doing, you know, in the squared circle, WCW. You know, I was doing that gritty stuff. And I did that for 6 and a half years until they sold it. And I was doing all the other stations, the Cats and the Bulls and the, you know, and and the Ed Hills who wanted the over-the-top stuff, and, and which I love doing, and I still do. But it all took its toll. And all of a sudden, right in the middle of a session, and I'll never forget, I was working with Terry Phillips in Detroit. And right in the middle of the session, I had this ungodly pain and I could feel it on the right-hand side of my throat. And I went, it felt like it was turning inside out.

Ryan: Oh, wow.

John: And what had happened was that a granuloma had revealed itself and was— through that day, whatever it was that was going on that day, it just stopped. It just stopped me cold.

Ryan: And was it like you just couldn't talk? I mean, it was like, you know, you try, nothing, or just pain?

John: No, it was pain. I mean, I had a little bit of voice there, but I knew that I was severely hampered and that I was hamstrung until I got to the doctor. And I found out, you know, they scoped me and all that. That's back when they didn't have the video stroboscopy where they just put it at the end of your tongue. They had to go down with a little fiber optic camera down your nose and then put it down the back of your throat and then have you sing a note, you know, go, ee, you know, so we can get a look.

Ryan: Right.

John: Anyway, it wasn't on the vocal fold itself except there was an edema, which means there had been a rupture on the vocal fold itself. But it was something associated with a little ligament stuff in the back there that just slaps together all the time. And I then was ultimately treated by the Vanderbilt Voice Center. Props to them. The best. The best in the world.

Ryan: So I did bring this up for another reason. Now you say a lot of water, gallon of water a day or so. You also run though. You work out a lot and that's important for that as well.

John: But I think it helps breath control.

Ryan: Okay.

John: I really do. Where you— because sometimes our creative friends are given to writing lengthy, long phrases and sentences, and sometimes you want to get them in one, you know?

Ryan: Yeah.

John: But it just helps the overall aspect. I mean, there are times when I go, what's going on here? Why don't I have the energy? And if you want a better frame of mind, a better perspective, more energy, I suggest go out and do something cardio-related. If you are a runner, go run. If you're a walker, go walk. But get away. Sometimes just get away, get out of the studio, whatever you're doing, and do that. Blow out the carburetor and then get back to it. And it really does help.

Ryan: It makes sense. So, I mean, those both, water, do some cardio, get the heart going, exercise. What else do you do to keep your voice in shape now and to prevent another incident or episode like you had before in 2000? Um, you know, warm up.

John: Yeah, there are some— boy, that would be interesting. Maybe on your podcast I could include some of the pages that I've looked at before. But, you know, I mean, humming and starting with words and phrases that don't have any hard glottal onset, you know, Women, men, you know, and things like that. And then humming and opening, just opening everything up and running, you know, running up from a low note up to sliding up, slurring up into a higher note and then running it back down.

Ryan: Which I think would be similar to what I was going to say. I have been told by more than one person, and it may seem dumb to a non-singer, but actually singing is a good warm-up? Is that in the same realm of what you're talking about?

John: Yeah, it is. You know, if you start— and I always heard if people really want to try this, that not to use your basement voice, but go from your lowest and go 5 half steps up, and then start there as your warm-up note, if you will, on any series of words or phrases. Don't start on the— with your basement note, but start 5 5 half steps up. And that's a good kind of a baseline, good reference point to start from.

Ryan: And of course—

John: Yeah, but singing is good. Yeah. I asked a friend of mine, Mark Wills, country singer, because it was really on my mind. We had had dinner in Nashville and he said, why don't you come to the Predators game? I'm going to sing the national anthem. So on the way over there, I asked him the question, what do you do as a singer? How do you warm up? first notes on stage. I was really surprised. But a lot of people do. I've heard Jennifer Nettles, for instance. We talked about her earlier, and I've heard her warm-up, not her complete warm-up, but some of it. And it's pretty cool. It's a lot of vocalizing, and they take it very seriously.

Ryan: Yeah.

John: And you can hear the effect. You can hear the result in her performance.

Ryan: The Producers.